Join Shelley and Toby as they interview Tim Fitzpatrick of Rialto Marketing about the past, present, and future of digital marketing in this surprisingly different era.
The Fundamentals of Marketing with Tim Fitzpatrick, Rialto Marketing
This is the first in a series of 20 interviews that we’re going to conduct over the next 20 weeks. We’re going to ask each of our digital marketing expert guests the same set of questions, and then we’re going to compile and publish that into a book.
We are excited to get started on interviews for our book all about digital marketing and building visibility and credibility in the new era.
Today we’re interviewing Tim Fitzpatrick from Rialto Marketing.
Tim Fitzpatrick: We do certainly get involved in digital marketing, but our space where we really play is in the fundamentals of marketing, your target market, and your message to that market. To get that out and what we put in plans is a lot of different aspects of digital marketing, but we don’t get involved in a lot of implementation.
We’re not the type of company that’s posting your social media and creating a bunch of content for you. We’re driving the strategy. I may have a slightly different take on some things than some of the other people that you end up interviewing as you move through this. But I’ll do my best to make sure that the first one starts it off with a bang.
Shelley Carney: That’s what we’re looking forward to because we cannot move on until we have the fundamentals in place. Is that right?
Tim Fitzpatrick: That is right. The fundamentals lay the foundation for you to build the rest of your house. The fundamentals in any discipline, I don’t care whether it’s marketing or hitting a baseball, those fundamentals are the same today as they were 50 years ago. And they’re going to be the same 50 years from now. They’re immutable. They do not change.
Tell us what those fundamentals are.
Tim Fitzpatrick: The marketing fundamentals, I call them the marketing strategy trilogy. It’s your target market and who your ideal clients are within that market. Not everybody in your target market is going to be a good client for you. I think many of us have found that out the hard way. We need to identify who those ideal clients are within our market and really understand them. Then we can identify where they are, where they congregate.
That’s where we need to be with the second step, which is our message. What do we say? How do we communicate our value in what we do?
Then we have to have a plan of how we’re going to get that message in front of those people. Those are the three fundamentals, your target market, your message, and your plan to get that message in front of those people.
What did you learn about digital marketing in the last two years?
Tim Fitzpatrick: There’s obviously been a lot of changes in the market the last few years. Certainly, the realization for a lot of business owners is that they haven’t been investing enough in their online presence and digital marketing. The thing that has really hit home for me the last few years is the tactics. Marketing tactics are constantly changing.
There are always new things, even something that’s been working for you on social media or with content may not always work. You’re always going to have to evolve. What hits home for me is how consistent the fundamentals are. Although the fundamentals don’t change the tactics do.
The last two years have really highlighted that.
What are some of the tactics that we’ve seen in the past few years that have been working for you and your clients?
Tim Fitzpatrick: There are a lot of things that are working. Most of the people we work with are service-based, they’re selling their expertise, coaches, consultants, professional service providers.
Content has continued to work time and time again. If you want to build credibility and authority within your space, you have to be producing content in some way, shape, or form. That’s something that I’m seeing.
Before the pandemic started I was doing a lot of in-person speaking. That obviously has shifted. Guest podcasting, doing what I’m doing right now has become a really popular tactic for people to use. It’s one of my favorite things to do. But I also look at guest podcasting as just another form of content. Those are working really well.
There are a lot of people doing online summits, and challenges have become really big for people as well. Those are some of the things that I’m seeing that are popular, that are working.
Shelley Carney: We’re speaking specifically today to entrepreneurs and small business owners who are doing business mostly online.
How will digital marketing for entrepreneurs and small business owners change in the next 12 months?
Tim Fitzpatrick: Break out my crystal ball? With the pandemic, there’s been a huge pivot to online and digital. I think digital is going to continue to become more and more important.
From a content perspective, video content is super important. So many people are consuming video. People have been consuming video for a long time, but, especially with TikTok and Instagram, real short-form vertical video is becoming really popular.
The online and digital shift is going to continue to happen. I think the importance of video content is going to get greater and greater.
Shelley Carney: I totally agree with you. What Toby and I experienced last week was we tried reaching out, going to an in-person networking event and it was not the same. He and I felt this is not safe. Let’s not stay. I don’t want to shake hands. I want to wear a mask. I feel like we’re not ready to go back to in-person networking yet. We may not be anytime in the near future. So we need to start finding those things that work not in person because we still have these fears.
Tim Fitzpatrick: I think it depends on where you live. But, there are people that are more comfortable getting back to “normal” than others. I think the important thing is no matter where you fall on the spectrum, you can still do business.
Before the pandemic, I was doing a lot of stuff virtually already, so it wasn’t a huge shift. What it has done is make virtual that much more acceptable. In most cases, it is just not an efficient use of my time to spend 30 minutes driving somewhere, sitting in a meeting for an hour or two, and then driving back again when I could have done that same thing virtually. I’m not going to say that virtual can replicate everything face-to-face, it cannot. There are certain things face-to-face that you just can’t do virtually, but I’m a hell of a lot more efficient now than I was before.
I want to keep going down that path. So for me, if I don’t have to meet face to face, I’m not going to meet face to face.
What do you see as the most prevalent obstacle when it comes to digital marketing, especially for your clients?
Tim Fitzpatrick: Information overload. There are so many people who are battling information overload when it comes to marketing.
As a result, they’re not sure what the next best step is for them. What step do I need to take to get where I want to go? There’s too much information coming at me. It is overwhelming.
When we’re in that place we feel like we can’t make a decision. But what we need to do is make a decision so that we can move forward.
With any marketing, we can take what we know has worked in the past and put it out there. There are frameworks, there are systems, there are templates that have worked really well, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that those are going to work for your business. So we’re testing all the time. But, the longer it takes for you to make a decision, the longer it’s going to take you to start to see results and get the information that you need to make further actionable decisions.
That’s the biggest obstacle I see. Information overload is preventing people from making the decisions they need to make so they can start taking action.
Shelley Carney: There are too many choices and we don’t know which one’s going to work best so that becomes an obstacle.
What should a prospective client have in place in their business before you may best help them with digital marketing?
Tim Fitzpatrick: It’s really about mindset more than anything else. We primarily work with B2B service-based businesses, but they could be just starting out. They could be low six figures wanting to get up into multiple six figures or they could be in seven figures and wanting to get into multiple seven figures. We can meet them where they’re at.
But our best clients have a mindset where they view marketing as an investment in their business, not an expense. If people view something as an expense, it’s very easy to cut. The clients who reach those higher levels are already in that frame of mind where they feel marketing is something they need to do.
I’m willing to make that investment in my business and I know I need help to do it effectively. Those people with that mindset tend to be our best clients.
Shelley Carney: Mindset is one of those foundational things.
Do you have a story about what you learned from working with a recent client?
Tim Fitzpatrick: I wouldn’t say it’s so much what I learned as it was a strong reminder for me. It’s very easy to lose sight of this. This particular client was a nutritionist and we were working with her on creating her message to her prospects and clients.
Part of that process is interviewing existing and past clients. Sometimes we’ll do it for them. Sometimes the client will do it themselves. Then they come to the brainstorming session armed with all this information. In her case, she did the interviews. She interviewed eight people.
It always opens people’s eyes because we often don’t think objectively about our business. But when we ask the right questions of our clients, it’s why didn’t I think of that? That makes so much sense! She had those types of revelations. One of the things that happened that was fascinating was she said, “Look, Tim, I reached out to past clients in doing these interviews. Three of them decided to start working with me again. Those three clients more than paid for the engagement.”
I don’t want to make it sound like that happens every time. But the reminder for me was we need to keep our offers top of mind and find ways to keep in touch with our past and current clients. A lot of businesses drop the ball on that. There is so much revenue out there in that part of our business. We’ve got to stay in front of people.
Shelley Carney: That makes sense. Reach back to those people that we used to work with because that’s the low-hanging fruit.
How does a website affect marketing success, in your opinion?
Tim Fitzpatrick: It is the hub. Think about a hub and spoke model. The website is the hub. Everything you do from a marketing perspective is driving people to your website. There are plenty of businesses out there that are working a hundred percent on referrals. Some people would wear it like a badge, I’m a hundred percent referral. I don’t need to worry about this digital marketing stuff.
Here’s the problem. Even if your business is a hundred percent referrals, if your website is repellant or confusing, you are losing referral business. You’re losing referrals and you don’t even know. If somebody said to me, “Tim. You need to work with Shelley. Shelley does a great job. Here’s what she’s doing.” Am I going to email you or call you? Most people, absolutely not. Where’s the first place they go online?
Let me check out Shelley’s website. What’s going on? I don’t know. This isn’t building warm and fuzzy feelings for me. Why the heck did this person refer me to Shelley? That looks bad for the person who referred you. So they’re going to stop referring you if that happens and that person never reaches out to you because they didn’t like what they saw on your website.
They’re vetting you before they even reach out. If they don’t like your website, they aren’t going to go check out your social media either. The website is the first place they’re going, then they might start to check out some of your reviews and social media. Your online presence is helping build and establish your credibility. Your website is the hub of that.
Everything you do from a marketing perspective, online and offline, is driving people back to your website. So if it’s not right, the rest of your marketing is not going to be either.
Shelley Carney: Other than looking very old-fashioned, what drives you away from people and what drives you towards them?
What do you like to see on a website?
Tim Fitzpatrick: The message. I will take a design that doesn’t look quite as pretty and has a clear message over a website that looks beautiful. There are tons of people that can make a website look pretty. The messaging is what does all the work. If you don’t have a clear message that guides people through a clear journey that gets them to the action that you want them to take, your website is going to fall short.
From a messaging standpoint, the biggest mistake people make is they talk too much about themselves. Pull up five of your competitor’s websites, and look at what they’re talking about. Most people talk about themselves. Our customers don’t care about us. What do they care about? They care about the problem that they have, that they want to be solved.
Can we help them solve that problem and get to where they want to be? Our message must answer that question. The messaging on your website needs to focus on your customer and not you. If you do that, you will be in much better shape.
How does social media figure into successful marketing?
Tim Fitzpatrick: Too many people look at all the marketing channels that are out there and feel like they need to be everywhere. You do not need to be everywhere to be successful, but you do need to pick the right places. Social media is not just one thing. SEO, content and social media go hand in hand.
If you want an effective digital marketing strategy with social media, it is important to start with one and focus on it. Too many people think they need to be on Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, and TikTok and they spread themselves too thin.
The best place to start with social is to choose a social media platform that has a few characteristics: One, the content type resonates with you. Because you’re going to be spending time on there so if you don’t like spending time on there, you’re not going to do a great job.
Two, your ideal clients need to be there. Most social media channels at this point are well established. A subset of your market is going to be on any social channel at this point. But different age groups will feature more prominently on one over the other.
You can also look at what channels seem to be working really well for your competitors. What channels are they using to get good engagement on their social posts?
All three of those things are going to help guide you to the channel that you should focus on. I think you are better off going narrow and deep in one channel first before you start to expand out. It’s really difficult to generate consistent leads without having social media as part of your marketing plan.
How can we use email marketing as a tool to increase the number of engagements that we have with our clients?
Tim Fitzpatrick: Email marketing is super low-hanging fruit for most businesses, but I still talk to a lot of businesses that are not taking advantage of email marketing.
Email marketing is inexpensive. It takes a little bit of time to set up, but it is one of the best ways to capture leads and then nurture those leads. Email is a fantastic way to stay in front of current and past clients.
If you are not using email marketing, put it in place. There are so many different email marketing platforms out there. Most of them are pretty good, especially if you’re just starting out, they’re going to meet your needs. But what you need to do is start building your email list. The best time to start building an email list was 10 years ago, but the second-best is right now.
How do you build your email list? Figure out something of value that you can offer free in exchange for somebody’s name and email address and start putting it out there. That’s it. That’s the easiest place to start building the list. The second thing you want to do is figure out what you are going to send to that list on a consistent basis.
Help support, educate, serve, and add value to them. That’s the easiest place to start. For less than 500 subscribers, Active Campaign is somewhere around $15 to $20 a month. Most of them are in that range. That is the best money you can invest in your marketing out of any tactic.
I would say if you’re not using email marketing, spend the money now and start.
Toby Younis: Don’t be intimidated by the words give away something free. That giveaway can be some of your intellectual capacity in the form of content that you create. There are lots of tools out there to help you.
Take what’s in your head and turn it into a viable piece of content that you can exchange for an email address. It’s what we use and a lot of marketing professionals in the digital marketing arena do too. We’ll continue to do that. So don’t hesitate to give away a checklist or roadmap to success. It could be as simple as spending an hour with a prospective client.
In what ways are content creation and distribution a factor in marketing success?
Tim Fitzpatrick: If you are in the expert space, you’re selling your expertise as part of your business. Content is one of the best ways to establish that credibility and authority within your space. You have to have an aspect of content marketing in your plan to have a well-rounded plan.
This doesn’t have to be difficult. I think a lot of people look at content and think, this is going to take too much time. It really doesn’t. Content doesn’t have to be long. One of the biggest roadblocks I hear people talk about is I don’t know what to talk about.
Start with all the questions that people ask you day in and day out. There are so many different questions you can answer for prospective clients.That’s an easy place to start. There’s a tool online called Answer the Public. You can go into Answer the Public and type in the keyword related to your industry and Answer the Public will give you at least 200 different topic ideas related to that keyword. Once you get into this, you will not struggle to find topics. Then make the video because it can be repurposed into all kinds of other content.
You can shoot short-form video from your smartphone. It doesn’t have to be professionally edited. That can be an awesome way to create content, but that content then can grow. It can be sliced, and diced into smaller videos. It can be transcribed. You can put it into audio. If you’re just getting started out I’m partial to video, but if you don’t like video, then you need to find a medium that works well for you, that resonates with you and that’s where you need to go.
What do you personally use for your business? What content is your number one go-to?
Tim Fitzpatrick: Video in all its forms. We have a podcast on Streamyard right now. We film on Streamyard. We stream live to a couple of different social channels.
That video then gets repurposed into a lot of our other content. We do still put out some written content on social media. But that video gets broken down into short-form video clips. It gets repurposed into our podcast. We transcribe it so it gets written. Then we put that all into a blog post on our website.
The blog post has the show notes, the YouTube video, the audio, the transcription, and links. There’s so much. The reason I love videos is there’s so much leverage that we can get from it. But the other thing about video, especially because we’re not meeting face to face as much as we used to, video is an awesome way to connect with people.
I have never met you guys face to face, but this is the second time we’ve talked. We’re seeing each other, we’re getting to know each other. Video is the next best thing to face-to-face. That’s another reason why I like it. It helps connect with people better than any other medium outside of Facebook.
Toby Younis: This may sound redundant now that you’ve answered in that way.
What are the best alternatives to face-to-face networking and other events?
The reason we came up with this question is we had been invited to a networking event and we discovered within the first few minutes, this is not a place that we want to be. I know you’re a big fan of the things that we’re doing and you’re doing. Let’s talk more about that.
What are the alternatives to face-to-face marketing to the client?
Tim Fitzpatrick: Video content is a great thing to do. There’s a couple of other things that we’re doing that I think are really good substitutes for face-to-face. Guest podcasting is another alternative to networking. We’re filming video as well as audio at the same time, but some of them are just audio.
One of the most overlooked aspects of being interviewed on other people’s podcasts is the networking aspect of it. Most hosts have their own businesses. The podcast is a marketing tactic for their business for most of them. So you’re meeting other business owners. It is a great way to connect with people and get to know them.
The other thing that is commonly overlooked is engaging on social media. Too many people look at social media and say I’ve been posting on social media and nothing’s working. That’s because it’s social, you have to interact with people. If you just put out content, that’s like the dude at the networking event who talks about himself the whole time and then wonders why people aren’t engaging with him.
We need to put out content with the intention of attracting people, but we also need to engage. There are all kinds of social media groups on Facebook, and LinkedIn. We need to get in those groups and start talking to people, comment on their posts, reshare their stuff.
People are building relationships within Facebook and LinkedIn groups just by interacting and commenting on people’s stuff. They may think I’ve seen Tim comment for the last five days. I like what he has to say. Let me go see what he’s all about. What does Tim even do?
Then they find out what I do and think I know somebody who has that problem, or I actually have that problem. Maybe I should reach out to him. That’s a great way to network. It’s not face-to-face, but you are engaging and interacting with people. There are plenty of ways that we can do that online.
My top three alternatives to face-to-face marketing are guest podcasting, engaging in social media groups, and creating video content.
Toby Younis: Tim mentioned that one of the best ways to promote yourself is either by asking people to be on your podcast or livestream or volunteering to be on someone else’s podcast or live stream.
We use a website called Podmatch. If you don’t have a podcast, but you have a topic that you think would be interesting to others and you’d like to be on someone else’s podcast, list yourself in Podmatch, and people will find you and invite you to their podcasts.
Tim Fitzpatrick: Podmatch is awesome. Listen Notes is another one. (ListenNotes.com.) It is like Google search for podcasts. There you can search by topic, or search for specific podcasts. If you put my name in there, you can see the various podcasts that I’ve been on.
There is so much cool information on there and it is such an easy way to find all kinds of podcasts that might be a good fit for you..
Shelley Carney: We are listed on ListenNotes because it is one of the places where you can upload your transcripts to get that additional SEO.
While we’re on the topic, if anybody is interested in interviewing any of the three of us, please reach out because we also guest on podcasts. If you want to talk more about digital marketing, livestreaming and how to create content consistently, those are topics we can all speak to. So reach out to us for that.
What do you recommend to attract digital media attention, such as podcasts, blogs, online magazines, and news outlets?
How do you get that attention? How do you become somebody that the news media and the bloggers, and everybody in media is interested in talking to? How do you reach that level of notice?
Tim Fitzpatrick: I believe you need to create content because content is what helps people get to know you and helps establish your credibility and authority.
You have to be consistent. This is not a sprint. It is a marathon. Look at it as a long-term investment in your business. Don’t feel like you have to have a book to inspire huge credibility to start getting placed in media. You do not. You just need to start taking action.
Podmatch is a great place to connect with podcast hosts and get on people’s podcasts. In the beginning you’re not going to have a lot of offers because you haven’t done it. But over time, the more you do, the more comfortable you get, the more people are going to notice you.
Nobody starts out and gets featured on MSNBC. Unless you already have a huge following, that’s not going to happen. But you have to start somewhere. Start to get those placements and build up experience, and you will get better and better media placements.
When the pandemic started, I hadn’t done podcast guesting. I didn’t have a podcast. I was doing in-person speaking. That was how we were generating a lot of attention. When that changed, we had to shift online. We started a podcast and I started guest podcasting. Prior to that, I would say I had some of the same limiting beliefs with guest podcasting that a lot of people have. I’ve got to have huge credibility and be some star in my space. I need to have a book. I’ve got to have some rags to riches story.
You don’t have to have any of those things. You just have to have something that you can talk about that is going to add value to that podcast host’s audience, and give them simple, actionable tips. Take the action and start reaching out to people. It works. I’ve done close to 150 guest podcast interviews since the pandemic started, and when it started, I had none.
Shelley Carney: That’s a lot. You’re doing great.
What marketing functions can we automate? How can we use technology on our behalf to automate some of those functions and how do we do that? Where do we start?
Tim Fitzpatrick: With marketing, there are a lot of opportunities to automate certain things. It’s important to consider though, is this something that you should be automating?
A lot of people default to automation because they want to be efficient, but there are certain things from a marketing standpoint and a sales standpoint that you just can’t automate. Somebody has to do those things. Don’t fall into the trap of trying to automate things just because you can.
But what you should automate are your email campaigns. One of the most important features most email providers offer is their email automation sequences. Being able to send out a set sequence of emails when somebody takes a specific action, for instance, sending out automated nurturing sequences through email is a great way to leverage your time.
One of the things we offer is a 90-day marketing plan template where we walk you through how to create your first 90-day marketing plan. When you go to our website and put your name and email address in there, that goes into our email marketing and begins an automated email sequence. That is a great way to leverage my time because the automation does it far better than I could manually. It goes out exactly when it’s supposed to. The information is consistent each and every time. That’s a great way to automate.
Another way to automate is your social media posts.
You cannot automate the interaction. Somebody has to do that, but what you post on social media, you can automate. There are hundreds of tools out there. We use Promo Republic. Some well-known apps are Buffer and HootSuite. They allow you to create your posts and schedule them so that they post to the designated sites at a specific time.
That’s another great way to leverage and plan. What do we want to post on social media this month? Or this week? Put it in and schedule it and it’s done. For content scheduling, some of the podcast hosts allow you to upload your content and then schedule it to go out at a certain time. When you write blog posts with WordPress, which is a website building platform, you can create your post and schedule it to publish at a certain time.
There are a lot of things like that you can automate so that things go out when they need to. I would just say, don’t fall into the trap of feeling like you need to automate everything.
Shelley Carney: Follow up on your automated posts. You can schedule your social media to go out on a regular, consistent basis. But if you don’t actually go into your LinkedIn, your Facebook, or Instagram, you’re not going to have engagement or interaction. Your posts become wallpaper that passes by people and they’re not going to notice your posts if you’re not there following up.
Our clients are entrepreneurs and small business owners and their number one concern is attracting leads.
What steps would you recommend to attract more leads?
Tim Fitzpatrick: It’s going to be very strategic and not tactical.
The first thing is you need to understand who your ideal clients are because everything from a marketing standpoint builds from that. Understanding who your ideal clients are is like the difference between casting a line out into the ocean to see what fish you catch and knowing that you’re trying to catch trout and fishing at the local trout farm. Put your line in the water, they’re all there.
There’s a ton of them and you know exactly what kind of fish you’re going to catch. That’s the difference. That’s why it’s so important to first know who your ideal clients are. Only when you know who your ideal clients are can you create a message that is going to gain their attention and interest. If you know who you want to attract, but what you say to them doesn’t grab their attention and interest then anything you do from a tactical standpoint with your marketing is not going to work well. That’s why these two steps are so important.
Once you understand who they are and what you’re going to say to them, you can then create a list. Success starts with a list. You can create a list of where your ideal clients are now. It doesn’t mean you’re going to be in every one of those places, but you now have a list that’s very targeted.
So you can fish where the fish are and put your message in front of the right people to get them interested in what you do. If you get tactical, go on social media and post, create a blog, do paid ads, without having these things in place, it’s like having a car with no gas. The fundamentals are the gas that fuels the tactics.
That’s why you have to start here.
In your experience, what works best for converting suspects into prospects and then into clients?
Tim Fitzpatrick: I’m going to go strategic first. You need to understand the problem that your suspects have that you can solve, first and foremost. You’re never going to get them to engage with you if you don’t talk about the problems that they have, that you can solve. The problems are the hook that brings people in.
Second, communicate how you can help them solve that problem. They’re looking for solutions. How do you solve that problem that makes you different from anybody else that they might be talking to?
Third is we need to paint the picture of what life looks like when they solve that problem with the solution that you provide.
That’s how we’re going to engage people with any tactic that we use. Any tactic can work. The easiest, lowest-hanging fruit for people is to start with what’s already working in your business. Too many people are looking for the newest, greatest tactic before they’ve already optimized what’s working in their business. If you’ve been in business for a while, you have existing and past customers. You have a lead generation channel that is working. I want you to look at that channel and all the steps. Break it down and look at where you have gaps and where you can do more of what’s already working. Optimize what’s already working before you start to jump into other channels.
That’s the fastest way to get leads because that channel is already working for you. If you pour a little more gas on the match, all of a sudden you get better results. That’s the fastest way to get results with marketing,
Shelley Carney: We’ve come to the end of our questions, but is there anything that we didn’t touch on today that you would like to bring out right now?
Tim Fitzpatrick: You have to make a decision. Put a plan in place, take action and make course corrections along the way. Too many people get stuck battling information overload and they don’t make choices that they need to make to start moving forward.
You’re going to make mistakes. There is no perfect plan, but start taking action and make adjustments to your plan as you learn along the way.
Tim Fitzpatrick with Rialto Marketing.
Tim Fitzpatrick: Our website is the best place to go for all our resources. Our podcast is right there at that resources link. All our social channels are down in the footer. If you do want to connect with me personally, the best place to go is on LinkedIn at linkedin.com\in\TimPFitzpatrick.
If you’re not sure what the next right step is, you can always just click the Get a Free Consult button on our website. I’d be happy to chat with you and give you some clarity so you can move forward.
Shelley Carney: We appreciate Tim for taking the time to answer all of our questions, and really get into the fundamentals so people can take a look at their business and make informed decisions.
Reach out to Tim at https://www.rialtomarketing.com/ if you find that you have too much information and you’re not making enough decisions.
Toby Younis: This is the first of 20 interviews with digital marketing professionals and experts and we’re going to continue this series over the next 20 weeks.
Please join us to hear the answers that we get from this variety of digital marketing professionals from different fields. I think you’ll really enjoy the conversation. It’s going to be consistent from show to show in terms of the questions we ask.
Messages and Methods: Livecast Life 2.0 is hosted by Shelley Carney and Toby Younis. Please subscribe and leave a comment or question and we’ll consider your ideas for future shows. Share this podcast with your family and friends so they can learn about current digital marketing practices and please come back again next week.
Find our new book, “Women in Podcasting: The Messages & Methods Interviews” at: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09RJZT8LX/
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