Join Shelley and Toby as they interview Daniel Alfon. Daniel shows business owners how to gain new clients with the power of LinkedIn. His programs and done-for-you premium packages help Executives and Entrepreneurs grow their businesses.
LinkedIn Mastery With Daniel Alfon
Shelley Carney: Today we’re going to be talking about LinkedIn and how we can use LinkedIn in our digital marketing efforts.
But first, we’re going to tell you about something new that we just signed up for it’s called Podpage. On Podpage, we can share all of our content in one place including our Messages and Methods podcast, and all the information that you might want to know like where to find us what we’re about.
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Shelley Carney: Today’s guest is Daniel Alfon.
Daniel Alfon: Shelley, thank you very much. I’m glad to be a part of the Messages and Methods project.
Shelley Carney: Thank you for being here. So, Daniel, we met on Podmatch. Podmatch is a place where people can sign up to be a guest or a host, or both for podcasting. Daniel reached out to be on our show and we are very excited to have him because he’s a LinkedIn expert and we felt he would be a perfect addition to our series on digital marketing. So thank you Daniel for being here and why don’t you tell us about yourself and your business?
Daniel Alfon: Thank you very much, Shelley. I signed up to LinkedIn early in 2004 and I was looking for a playbook and I couldn’t find any. I built my own playbook and it’s been a bumpy ride, but LinkedIn has grown by leaps and bounds. It’s a very powerful system that’s underutilized by many people who are considering live streaming, podcasting, or writing a book.
Toby Younis: We should mention Daniel lives in Israel, in what city?
Daniel Alfon: It’s a small community just outside of Tel Aviv called Givat Hananya.
Toby Younis: The other thing I forgot to ask is what time is it for you right now?
Daniel Alfon: It’s the best part of my day speaking with you, but it’s around 10.
Toby Younis: I didn’t look at the time differences when we asked you to join us and I should have. You have seen some of the shows that we’ve already done with other guests and that the primary topic is digital marketing in 2022.
But we want to cover as many facets of digital marketing as we possibly can. That’s why the invitation to you as an expert in LinkedIn is so important. I’m going to let our audience know that we’ve asked Daniel to answer our questions in the context of his area of expertise. We, like Daniel, believe LinkedIn is a very important part of where you want to be in terms of digital marketing, especially if you’re a home-based business or a startup entrepreneur. You need to know how to use LinkedIn in terms of your digital marketing.
We asked Daniel to answer these generic questions in the context of LinkedIn, and I’m sure he has other things to add as well because of the amount of experience that he has.
Daniel, let’s start with the first question. What did you learn about digital marketing in the last 12 months?
Daniel Alfon: Thank you, Toby. I would say this in general terms. I have a friend who moves from country to country, homeschooling his child and working in China or Europe for eight months. He was used to providing services from home. But the rest of us have found it challenging to start working from home and no longer see people at the water cooler or coffee machine.
It has provided us with a lot of opportunities once we understood that COVID is, I don’t want to say here to stay, but it’s not just a passing phase. In terms of LinkedIn, the pace of the changes has increased. More entrepreneurs had the time to use LinkedIn because commuting was disappearing or at least significantly reduced. The average time users are logged into LinkedIn has increased. More people joined the platform. Since you started this live session, 200 people have joined. Every second two people join.
Toby Younis: That’s an amazing number when you think about it. You said you had been a LinkedIn subscriber since 2004. I had no idea it went back that far. How have you seen it change in that period?
Daniel Alfon: There’ve been many changes, but the essence, I think, is pretty similar to when it was launched. It’s a conservative platform. It’s traditional. It’s slow and above all it’s professional.
People may have a number of topics they’re interested in, but the first bit of advice I suggest is to focus on one professional activity you would like to highlight.
Shelley Carney: With your experience of the past 17 years using LinkedIn and doing this digital marketing yourself, how do you feel that digital marketing for entrepreneurs and small business owners will change in the next 12 months?
Daniel Alfon: Podcasting and streaming are very big. Good podcasts are here to stay. But many people who have not done this seriously will at one point, stop doing this. If you are serious about it, then think about the long-term building of your podcast and understanding the way you’d like to grow your audience. Be systematic about it. For podcasters, live streamers, and also for LinkedIn, consistency is important.
Toby Younis: Shelley has been very good about making blog posts, and content entries into her LinkedIn, and she’s gotten a lot of responses. More than 250 people are now subscribing to her newsletter on LinkedIn. A lot of the content that we have created in other places, she adds to LinkedIn and is getting a response to it.
What I like about LinkedIn the most is although it’s categorized as a social media platform, it doesn’t behave like some of the other social media platforms. You don’t hear a lot of criticism of LinkedIn like you do with other social media platforms. What’s that about? Why don’t we see that social media criticism for LinkedIn?
Daniel Alfon: A lot of the other social media platforms we use on a daily basis are based on our activity on that platform. So if you log in to Facebook or Twitter or Instagram, then you’re supposed to be active. On LinkedIn, you’re not supposed to be very active.
The top action LinkedIn users perform is visiting other people’s profiles. So you need to build a decent profile, but you don’t have to share yourself to death. It’s not interesting and most people simply become blinded to this.
Toby Younis: That does make it very different. What do you see as the most prevalent obstacle to digital marketing success in the coming year?
Daniel Alfon: A lot of small business owners and entrepreneurs because they don’t have a lot of time are looking for shortcuts and have failed to have a system. I believe in systems. Even if the system is imperfect, it makes it easier for us in the long term to grow our business, get more listeners, and get more revenue. Many excellent people I know are jumping from one tactic to another, and they never play with that enough to actually see the results. The long-term is stronger and more captivating than trying to just move to another fad for a week and then discover something else.
Shelley Carney: Tell us about the people you work with and what you do for them. What should a prospective client have in place in their business before you may best help them with digital marketing?
Daniel Alfon: The only thing that will help us is knowing who their ideal client is. In other words, some of the people who we help are too early in their entrepreneurial journey to even understand who they want to serve. To those people, I would say, forget about LinkedIn and try to speak with people and experiment until you have a niche and you decide that’s what you want to do.
At that minute, then you can leverage LinkedIn in a much stronger way than trying to do something when you’re not clear about your goal. If you are able to easily identify your ideal clients, everything else becomes feasible, easy, and systematic. That would be the only obstacle preventing someone from working with me or any other service provider.
Toby Younis: We’re very much about storytelling. We like telling our own stories. We like hearing our client’s stories. Please tell us a story about a recent learning experience you had when dealing with one of your clients.
Daniel Alfon: I had a Zoom call with the owners and the staff of a company of manufacturers based out of Edison, New Jersey, and they played with LinkedIn. They were looking for engineers who would be specking the RFPs and the contracts for them in innovation, medical devices, and the military. When they discovered that within minutes, we could find prospects on LinkedIn, and by the next time they were able to reach out to them, it was magical. It was almost like visiting a candy store with your kid for the first time. It was fun for me to see. Like when you guide someone who’s just had the first live stream experience. You see their eyes shine. It makes it all worthwhile.
Toby Younis: We love that part of it when one of our clients does their first livestream, and it is painless, they get to express themselves; they see the end results and they can share it with their business associates, their family, and friends.
So you’re right. It’s very exciting for us to see clients realize that they’ve done something different and important to them.
Shelley Carney: How does a website affect marketing success and how can you optimize a website to achieve that success?
Daniel Alfon: In the long term, I think the website is essential. There is no excuse for business owners not to create a website. As much as I like LinkedIn, you don’t own LinkedIn. We don’t own LinkedIn. The best use of LinkedIn would be to reflect what we put on our website. The content on your website should be reflected on LinkedIn, on your profile, and on your page.
If you’re building a website and you have your website up for six months, then you may consider LinkedIn like another website. It doesn’t have to be the primary website. Another very important thing I’d like to suggest is that entrepreneurs who are thinking about publishing a book or starting live streaming or podcasting should build their profile as a website on LinkedIn and not as a CV.
Because they’re not looking for a job, it doesn’t make sense just to say I was working for the First National Bank until that year. Try to tell the story about yourself and who you serve in your new life and the live streaming episode of your life. That’ll make it a lot more interesting. The challenge, or what you should consider is building a converting profile.
Toby Younis: I’m embarrassed to say that if you want to see an example of what Daniel is talking about take a look at Shelley’s profile on LinkedIn and then my profile on LinkedIn. And you’ll see the difference because of the great job that she’s done and turning it into her personal website.
Shelley Carney: It’s because you’re more of a hobby kind of guy.
Toby Younis: How does social media figure into your total marketing success?
Daniel Alfon: Because people are on social. You need to have a social media strategy. I don’t believe you need to create a different personality for the sake of social media. It doesn’t make sense because some of the people who are going to watch whatever you do on LinkedIn or Instagram or any other system, know you from real life. They’ve spoken with you. They’ve worked with you. They studied with you.
There are three tests. One test is that you should feel good about your social media activities. The second test is will your network be surprised or will they nod and say, yes, that’s the way Shelley and Toby are in real life?
The third test may be the one that’s the harshest. The clientele you’d like to attract when they check you out on social, will they say, how do I get these people? I need to speak with them. They know what I’m talking about at the exact time I’m thinking about creating the next chapter for me. How do I reach out to them as fast as possible?
So first yourself, then your network, and lastly, people you’d like to serve who have never heard about you.
Shelley Carney: How can we use email marketing most effectively and how can we tie that into what we’re doing on LinkedIn?
Daniel Alfon: I was late into email marketing. I started building a list maybe two years ago, and the best piece of advice I could give is simply to start as soon as possible. You can start with a quarterly email or a monthly email.
Don’t push yourself too hard. Don’t try to send a number of emails every week. It doesn’t make sense. But if you can consistently have one email a quarter or one email a month, you will be able to grow your list. I heard you discuss the possibility of having a LinkedIn newsletter. That’s fine, but again, your website and email list that you own in the long-term are more important than social and LinkedIn. LinkedIn should serve you rather than you serving LinkedIn.
Shelley Carney: Do you have a suggestion for how to get your LinkedIn contacts onto your email list?
Daniel Alfon: Content is very big on LinkedIn. I would say that content is the best marketing element that is likely to grow your business. Within the context of content, I would advise people to repurpose or produce educational content.
There’s one part that’s top of the funnel and getting more people to discover what is it that you do, and there’s the sale process or prospecting. I don’t think LinkedIn is good for the transaction, but if you use it systematically, LinkedIn makes a lot more people curious about you. They will go check you out, go to your website or download your free lead magnet. Then it is likelier for you to convert them and make them a long-term client of yours.
Toby Younis: In what ways are content creation and distribution a major factor of success in digital marketing?
Daniel Alfon: I think it’s key because content is the new way to connect. Back in the day, like 20 years ago, you were meeting salespeople, and you were dependent on them to know what was happening in your industry. But right now you are able to easily do 80% of your searching process before ever speaking to the company you chose.
That makes the client a lot more educated. Content is the best educational resource. So we first identify our ideal prospects and then interview them. What makes them tick? What bothers them? Can we write, produce, or stream educational content around those things that will make them join our tribe?
Because they got value from it, and when they get value from it, you don’t have to sell. They simply buy.
Toby Younis: We’re very big fans of content creation and distribution. So we agree with you wholeheartedly on that.
Shelley Carney: Is there a particular type of content or posting that you would recommend when it comes to LinkedIn?
Daniel Alfon: Let me just share a number of options. It should tie with your marketing objectives. You can create content that LinkedIn calls LinkedIn Articles, which would be best for long-form content that has a long shelf life. In some cases, evergreen content could be repurposed as LinkedIn articles.
Why should you think about LinkedIn articles? Because when you share a link on social media and on LinkedIn in particular, LinkedIn doesn’t want people to leave that platform. LinkedIn would like people to stay within that platform. So when you share a LinkedIn article, LinkedIn is likelier to show it to more connections of yours, simply because it knows that they will not leave LinkedIn. They will stay within the gated area of LinkedIn.
Other than articles and a newsletter which we already discussed, LinkedIn live events such as this could be excellent for live streamers because it would be on LinkedIn. It could help you be discovered by people who are on LinkedIn.
You could also try to leverage LinkedIn polls. It’s tricky, but if you can think of a question that will make your ideal prospect feel the need to know the answer, it could be a great way to attract people to you. Because you cannot see the answers to the poll unless you vote. So the question should be intriguing. You should try to phrase a question so your audience feels compelled to see whether most people think like them or not.
LinkedIn events are another area you could leverage. Virtual conferences you would leverage through LinkedIn. Even videos, such as live videos, and even a cover video on your profile. It’s free to use. It’s very simple. It could be a 20-second video saying “We’re publishing Women In Podcasting. If you’d like to get your copy, check down below and get your copy from Amazon.”
Everything like the articles, newsletter, LinkedIn live, polls, and events could be part of your LinkedIn strategy.
Shelley Carney: What are the best alternatives to face-to-face networking and other events?
Daniel Alfon: I think it boils down to understanding that LinkedIn has not changed the way we behave as humans. Social media, in general, has not really changed the way we are wired.
There was an episode you released explaining what a livecast is and Toby mentioned vulnerability. It makes us afraid because we’ve spent half our life trying to appear professional and not knowing whether our dog will bark or the UPS guy will knock on the door is frightening. But like you said, people forgive you if they understand that you’re human and genuine. We no longer have to appear like a Marvel or DC character. We can be ourselves and that’s actually one of the best ways to attract clients. If they don’t like it, we may not be interested in working with them.
If I understand how you work, then when I reach out to you, I feel that I almost know you. We’ve never spoken before, but I heard you. I consumed a lot of content that you produced. Now I trust you enough to reach out to you and say, help me create that podcast or build a better concept for the livestream I’m thinking about.
Toby Younis: That’s the advice that we give to our clients.
Three weeks ago, Shelley and I signed up for a networking event that was taking place at a local restaurant and it turned out to be in the corner of the restaurant. We thought we were ready for face-to-face contact. I think we stayed there for 10 minutes before we realized this was going to turn into a super spreader event. We didn’t want to be there.
We tell people there is nothing wrong with saying, can we meet you on Zoom? Can we send you an invitation to a meeting? More and more of our clients and prospects are finding that very acceptable. Nobody says anymore, “I don’t have the equipment,” or “I don’t know how to sign on,” or “I don’t know how to use it.”
I think that’s become an important part of being able to do business with people. Not all live networking events are necessary. Plus, it provides you as an individual, the opportunity to construct your own networking events, even though everybody’s calling in from their respective laptops.
One of the questions we get from our clients is how do I go viral? Because viral is the new way of getting media attention. We don’t always agree that going viral is a good thing, but I think what they’re trying to ask is when it comes to media, whether it’s print or digital publications, what do I have to do to get their attention?
What would you tell them?
Daniel Alfon: I think people are obsessed with trying to engineer a viral thing.
If we are pitching someone who gets dozens or hundreds of pitches a day, an influencer, my advice is to customize it as much as we can. Someone once said, “I didn’t have the time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long letter.” Like 90% of our job is to edit what we want to say. If I may suggest a simple idea, use video. Tools like Loom, they don’t have to be expensive. There’s even a free version that enables you to have maybe 20 to 25 videos. Shooting a 30-second video is likelier to get a response because it makes it more intriguing and they could relate to what you’re saying there. But, try to make us understand that this video was uniquely created when you researched us. When you researched that influencer.
You need to make them think, how does that person know so much about us? So much about my company? So much about me? Then have a call to action that is easy. Don’t ask them something that you can Google. Don’t ask them to pick their brains for 10 hours. Try to make it easy for them to reply.
If you get a reply, you’re in a good place. Try to nurture that relationship. Don’t try to go transactional because we smell it a mile away.
Toby Younis: Since Daniel mentioned Loom, I’m getting promotions for another tool called Vouch. Vouch is not you producing the short video, it’s asking your clients to produce a 30 to 60-second video to help promote your business. Then you put that on the Vouch website and use that link as a way of promoting your business. So you’re getting it from the source’s mouth. I thought it was a good idea.
Shelley Carney: They call that UGC, user-generated content. It adds to your social proof. Let’s talk about automation.
What marketing functions can we automate and how do we do that?
Daniel Alfon: Allow me to only speak about LinkedIn for a second. I don’t advise people to use any LinkedIn automation at all for a number of reasons. When you’re a solopreneur or a small business owner, using automation makes no sense because automation is frowned upon by LinkedIn.
LinkedIn will crack down and might restrict your account. By restricting your account, you will no longer be able to perform the actions you’d like to do on LinkedIn. You might get hurt because you try to save 10 minutes and now you have hours to invest in order to get back what you had last week.
You have a real-life network. It may be only around your Metro area, but you’ve worked with hundreds of people. You may have served thousands of people. Not all of these people are on LinkedIn, but some of them are. Start with the basic place where you could relate to them as a person.
One quick piece of advice in terms of your connection strategy, pick quality and not quantity. With quality, you may connect with 48 people, but you know all of them well. Whenever you want to search on LinkedIn and you find that ideal prospect and you see the mutual connection of yours and you know who that person is, it’s very powerful because you can reach out to them. There’s life outside of LinkedIn. Leave LinkedIn, reach out to that person, ask how they’ve been. Then ask “I would like to be in touch with John Doe and I see that you two are connected. Do you feel comfortable enough to make an introduction? Do you know that person well enough?
You can only do that if you really know your network. Maybe down the road, you’ll decide to go to the quantity aspect of it, but start with quality and then make up your mind.
Toby Younis: I get requests from people on LinkedIn who I don’t know. How do I judge whether to agree to engage with them? My first reaction is, I don’t know you, and I don’t respond. What do you recommend when people get queries from other individuals they may not know? How do they judge whether it’s a good decision to incorporate them into their LinkedIn network?
Daniel Alfon: I’ll make two quick suggestions. One is to simply visit their profiles. In some cases, you will decide it’s not relevant for you at all or decide it’s intriguing.
Another way to do this is in the top navigation bar, the second icon is “My Network.” When you click on “See All”, the word “Message” appears. Now, what could you do? You could simply message these people without accepting their invitation. “Thank you very much for the invitation. I don’t remember working with you. Have we met? Is there any way I could be of service to you?”
If that was an automated mechanism, you’ll get crickets. But if that person actually wanted to work with you, then they would simply reply, and then you may actually have a meaningful conversation with them.
One thing you could do is treat incoming invitations as opportunities and only act when it’s intriguing enough for you to spend 30 seconds. Email that person or message them on LinkedIn prior to you accepting their invitation.
Toby Younis: I will take advantage of that recommendation today because I have several of them that I really didn’t know what to do with.
One of the things that we get from clients is I need more leads. How can I use what we do to create more leads? What would you recommend to an individual to generate more leads for them?
Daniel Alfon: One of the things I liked about What is A Livecast and Why Should I Do It? is the way you described both content and campaigns. I’d like to be a little granular and speak about content in the context of LinkedIn.
Content should not only be shared with your connections. There is a way for you to produce content that’s relevant for your audience and join LinkedIn groups. Instead of harassing your own connections, who may not be your ideal prospects, fish where the fish are and go to these groups and share your educational content there. You may be discovered by 10,000 people you never would have been connected with simply based on the content you have. In that video I mentioned, you have an excellent flowchart with an amazing way to repurpose that content. I don’t think you need to create content for the sake of LinkedIn, but if you do create content, then sharing it on LinkedIn makes a lot of sense. That’s one way to get leads.
The second quick way is to run a search for your ideal prospect and focus on what LinkedIn will show you as second-degree contacts. If you connected with people you knew, that means you would be able to reach out to someone who will make the introduction. That makes sense if the service you offer is expensive and not a commodity. It’s worthwhile exploring only if what you sell, what you’d like to offer, is interesting enough for you to spend that time and reach out to that person. But it’s an excellent way to leverage your real-life network.
I believe referrals bring me 90% of my clients. Before reaching out to people you don’t know, you need to start with your own backyard. People who’ve worked with you. People who appreciate you and people who could refer other clients to you. Bob Burg wrote a number of books about it. Endless Referrals is just one of them. Referrals in the long term to me is the best way to get long-lasting relationships with clients. Referrals tend to be less price-sensitive. They tend to stay with you longer and they could end up referring people to you if you serve them well.
Shelley Carney: In your experience, what works best for converting suspects into prospects and then into clients?
Daniel Alfon: I like the “suspects” term here. I’ll suggest a simple three-step methodology. Question number one, who is your ideal client? Your ideal client could be someone interested in publishing a book, launching their podcast, or starting live streaming.
The second question is if you were able to attract those people to your own LinkedIn profile, what action would you like those people to perform after they visit your profile? If you would like them to reach out to you, then have you provided them with information that is likely to make them convert?
The truth is that in many cases you have that information outside of LinkedIn. Taking content that you have and repurposing it on your LinkedIn profile maybe will take you 15 minutes, but it could go a long, long way. Your profile should speak for itself and your profile needs to convert.
Another misconception is that you need to have a LinkedIn company page. You don’t. If your livestream business becomes a Fortune 500 company, then it may make sense to use the company page. But for solopreneurs or those who have a staff of 5 to 15 people, their individual profiles are likely to have more connections than the company page will ever have.
Toby Younis: To reinforce what you just said, your LinkedIn profile can be engineered into a very simple tool for producing leads, turning suspects into prospects. It can convert for you if you’ve built it in the right way.
Shelley Carney: Closing arguments. We ask you for your most important takeaway tactic or piece of advice for small business owners. What is that important takeaway tactic or advice that you have?
Daniel Alfon: I may surprise you with the answer because what I will say is not related to digital marketing. I think that the best piece of advice I could give to anyone who considers becoming an entrepreneur after they’re 20 to 25 years old, is to have a meaningful conversation with their significant other before crises emerge.
In many cases, a simple conversation would help people who care about us, understand why we’re doing this. They need to feel assured that we’ll not have to lose our home because of what we’re doing now. Talk about how much time and money we are spending. Having that trust or that understanding at home is one thing that could help you grow your business for years. Jumping into it without making sure that your relationship can overcome obstacles is not a wise idea. There will be obstacles along the way.
Toby Younis: Let’s share your website where folks can find you. Also, if you have anything that people could take advantage of such as content to give them advice about what they should be doing.
Daniel Alfon: This is my website it’s DanielAlfon.com.
The most expensive real estate on our LinkedIn profile in terms of text is our headline. What I created is a giveaway, a cheat sheet, with a simple formula about the way you could craft a selling headline. That headline is the sentence or the couple of words that show up next to your name on LinkedIn. I found that having a strong headline when people search for you, or when people visit your website, makes them discover you in a more meaningful way.
Instead of having just the title of your company, if the name of the company is not opening the door, then you could build or craft a more intriguing headline. The limit here is just ourselves. Spend 5 minutes reading this cheat sheet and then another five minutes to craft a more attractive headline.
You could double or triple visits to your profile via search, and that could help you convert in a meaningful way.
Toby Younis: On Daniel’s website, scroll down and you’ll see that button for a free download.
When you want to learn more about what Daniel is doing to help people take advantage of how they use LinkedIn to build their businesses, connect with Daniel. Let him know that you found him through Toby and Shelley on Messages and Methods and that you were impressed with what he had to say about using LinkedIn.
Toby Younis: Daniel, any last words?
Daniel Alfon: Shelley and Toby, thank you for allowing me to be part of the journey. This is significant for me. If you asked me six months ago, would you be willing to go on a live stream event without having it scripted? I would have said get out of here!
Try to do it and it won’t be perfect, but you’ll get your feet wet and you’ll do it better the second time. There is no other way to do it.
Toby Younis: If you’ve ever thought about getting your feet wet, as Daniel said, and you have something to talk about when it comes to digital marketing, let us know. Join us as a guest on our show. We always ask the same set of questions for our digital marketing guests and we allow them to expand upon those questions in the context of their area of expertise, as Daniel did perfectly today.
It’s a good way to introduce yourself to livestreaming. If you need to learn more about it, let us know, and we can help you through that as well. It’s not hard, and it gives you the opportunity to be real in front of your prospective audience. That prospective audience is going to hold some prospective business for you. That’s why we recommend it to everyone.
Shelley is the master and I’m the tech guru of taking this one piece of content and turning it into literally dozens of different pieces of content that are used in a variety of ways.
Daniel, thank you very much for joining us. We look forward to future conversations.
Daniel Alfon: Thank you very much and I look forward to learning from other experts on the Messages and Methods Livestream.
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